They honestly should have led with this to begin with. People want to see the games they'll be playing, not sold a flashy lie. As for the general tone, I think it's understandable provided Saints Row 1 and 2 were based on general gang and street tropes associated with Gen X culture. Saints Row 3 kind of left that culture behind as the characters were now seasoned criminals rather than street thugs. Saints Row 4 wasn't even on earth so there wasn't anything to base it on really except other forms of media. I think with the new "woke" "millineal" "PC" angle they are doing this again. So long as they lean in to the joke, and don't take the entire premise at face value, I think it could work.
This picture is really the thing that pissed me off the most with that new game. On one side you have an AK looking gun and a muscle car and on the other you have a laser turret and a flying bike... in the same picture... in the same fucking game.
I think this picture sums up perfectly Volition's main problem since the release of Saints Row the Third: every time they release a new game they are trying to please everyone at the same time by mixing elements from the older games with over the top stuff. If it even is possible to please both the "new" and "old" fans with a single game, this is certainly not the way to do it, as the "old" fans got the short end of the stick with the last 4 games.
One of my favorite moments in SR3 was when STAG finally gtfoed from the game because they looked so out of place next to the other factions. It's sad to see that Volition still struggles to understand what the strengths and weaknesses of its previous games are, especially because they are really trying, you can even see it on that picture with the fact that the road is made of cobblestone; they are really trying to make the districts unique again. But because of this one questionable design decision to have a faction with space age technology while everyone else is living in present day, you undermine this really interesting city and world you've created.
The suspension of disbelief only works when the world is coherent with itself.
I absolutely love Volition and the last thing I want to do is shit on one of their product because even if I don't always like them, I know they always put their heart and soul into it. But I really wish they would understand that most of the stuff past SR2 is NOT Saints Row.
If they want to make an open world crime game in a sci-fi setting (something that would happen in a world like Dead Space or Halo), I would be super fucking supportive and most fans would be too, AS LONG AS they don't call it Saints Row and they don't market it that way.
Volition isn't killing Saints Row, it's the other way around.
Volition, man, you need to realize that it's not necessary for you to scream "SAINTS ROW!" or "JOHNNY GAT!" for people to notice your game. People know your strengths; you just need to tell them "in-depth character customization" or "chaotic third person combat", and people will be instantly interested, even if it's not a Saints Row game. Commit to creating something brand new where you can really express yourself and go wild instead of clinging to those names that don't mean anything anymore, and be forced to create a product that mixes different aspects and is ultimately middling.
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I agree with most of this, I have both concerns and hopes from what we were shown.
Just one thing, AoM took place in Seoul, not Hong Kong.
Gah such a stupid mistake, it's been quite a while since I looked at the game, my apologies. I'll correct it. Shows ignorance on my part since I was discussing the idea of unique cultural representation of a city, so I feel incredibly silly.
I feel super bad about being overtly critical, it was extremely tragic when there was mass layoffs after Agents of Mayhem, as that is peoples genuine livelihoods on the line, when we are discussing a piece of media that overall wont impact us in a negative way whatsoever.
Volition is clearly full of passionate and talented people, and the love they have shown the modding community is beyond what most big gaming companies would even attempt. The fact that they recovered old code and have a team trying to fix the pc port of Saints Row 2 over a decade later is truly admirable and shouldn't be ignored. Agents of Mayhem had some exceptional groundwork to it in regards to gorgeous animation and excellent combat that was let down by the game being rushed, unfinished and poorly marketed. Despite being more of a standalone expansion pack than a full new game, I adored Saints Row 4 and loved the characters, who I find I was able to sincerely connect with.
L'Andromada
Although I don't personally necessarily mind the blend of elements, I absolutely agree that it clearly is frustrating for a lot of older fans, and that Volition's constant obsession with their own brand is stifling their creative freedom and the perception of consumers. One of the major issues Agents of Mayhem's marketing had was the constant use of Saints Row branding even though it wasn't a part of the franchise, and was a very different game in terms of mechanical focus and content.I got into the series with 3, so I genuinely don't mind an exuberant world and style, and good writing, storytelling and characters can be expressed in a lot of different thematic ways. But I do understand how important narrative and thematic coherence is in creating a relatable and interesting world, and how frustrating it must be for people who desperately want a style of game that, honestly, has been severely under-represented for over a decade.
I'm scared that even if the game ends up fantastic, the bad marketing will stifle sales and Volition will suffer more layoffs or an even worse case scenario, so I really, desperately hope they are able to turn things around, and that first impressions of the characters are able to be shifted and a positive community can be cultivated.
Exactly, Agents of Mayhem tried to be Saints Row, but in all the wrong ways. If it had been established from the start that it should be something completely different than SR, I think it could have ended up being decent, and it certainly wouldn't have pissed anyone off. Those shitty gaming channels certainty didn't help with their clickbait "AoM is actually SR5: confirmed because Gat and fleur de lys olololol" videos, but it was ultimately Volition's fault.
I just feel like Volition is full of creative ideas but can't express them because they feel (or are) obligated to only make SR games. And because they don't want to alienate the "old" fans nor the "new" ones they end up making a game that doesn't know what it wants to be.
About the reboot specifically, my biggest problem isn't the blending of elements in and of itself (it can actually be pretty cool if done correctly like in Fallout NV) it's just that it doesn't make sense when a mercenary group is using flying bikes while the government is still using regular police cars.
It's even more baffling when you remember that GTA Online was criticized for this exact same reason, most of the GTA player base are sick and tired of flying bikes and laser rifles and are begging to get a more grounded game. Volition had the power to deliver this and get a lot of new people interested, but they just didn't, they missed one of their biggest opportunity, that's just sad.
If the game fails (and I hope it won't), I just hope Epic's money will be used to secure the future of the employees. If this is actually the reason they took the deal then that just makes me like the company even more. And I won't even be mad if I have to wait up to 2 years to play it (if it's permanent we're gonna have a problem tho).
Btw I'd say I pretty much 100% agree with what you said in you long post, mainly the personalities of the main characters, that's a much more subjective issue and it might be just an impression but they looked to me like the typical self centered social media addicts that I've always tried to distence myself from (especially the Asian guy). I hope I'm wrong.
The writing and characters are absolutely what I'm most worried about, I do not want them to self censor and make the game sterile and lifeless. A lot of recent sequels and modern games have ruined what made them special and fun.
So this fella got a sneak-peak at what this game has to offer and, hoo boy, looks like the CGI trailer we saw did NOT do it justice. I won't spoil it for anyone who don't wanna watch it, but they're gonna show it today and...
We might wanna buckle up.
Afaik everybody that had seen beyond the CGI trailer said that. Godzilla also said that the trailer sucked, F13 is excited for the gameplay showcase
Those worries are 100% justified, however I personally don't think Volition is going to fall into self censorship, considering they always had "sex positive character portrayals" from 1 to even GooH (can't tell about AoM, haven't played it). And they would have to be really out of touch to feature a city based on Reno and not portray the sexual aspects of its inhabitants and locations at all.
I don't think they are going to tone down the grittiness of the criminal aspect either since they made it clear they wanted to focus on the running of the businesses and they mentioned "drugs" a lot, so hopefully we'll see drug labs, drug dens, illegal sex shops, shantytowns, the kind of gritty locations you'd see in SR2.
I really trust Volition on those aspects, mainly because they are (still) really different from most of the other modern companies, Rock$tar, Bethesda, Bioware, etc... they betrayed their fans countless times (willingly or because of their publishers/investors). That's not the case with Volition, even if they don't make the same games anymore, they still have integrity, they still treat their whole fanbase with respect, anyone can see that with how they reacted to Mike's project, and the promise they made to him. (that's why I don't want to get mad at them as long as they keep this attitude of respect and goodwill, that would be hypocritical).
What I personally understand from the article you mentioned especially from the sentence "We had a different kind of story that we wanted to tell." is that it's the tragic backstories, the revenge plots and the ruthlessness of the main cast that is going to be toned down, the stuff that was most prevalent in SR2 (and 1 to a lesser extent). Volition made it clear that they really don't like how the boss turned out in SR2, to me they are just going to completely remove those kind of stories. None of your friends are going to have a tragic backstory, nothing is going to happen that would leave the boss angry and vengeful. It would make sense with the general feeling that they are trying to make relatable characters, it's hard to relate to someone who did what they did to Jessica.
If this kind of thing does happen, it's going to be handled just like in SR3, in the most neutered way possible.
Kind of shame, this theme of buildings being constructed throughout the story would have been a good opportunity to bury people under fresh cement.