Big Layoffs Hit Agents of Mayhem Developer Volition

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by Quantum, Sep 28, 2017.

  1. One wonders why anyone still bothers buying a Denuvo license anymore. For a good while, it had a reputation of being so complex that even the best crackers had issues understanding what's going on. Then it not only got cracked, but a toolkit holding info on how to do it for more games appeared from what I've heard. Even deviations in Denuvo's code are now being seen through. DRM only backfires in the long run (SafeDisc, anyone?) and is not a worthwhile expense anymore, and even tieing games to specific platforms like Steam, PSN and Xbox Live doesn't guarantee that you'll be playing the games you own after those platforms inevitably die. GOG got that memo, but relatively few bother to release games there (properly).
  2. Corrodias

    Corrodias Generally Awesome Staff Member

    I'd be curious to pick the brain of one of these "media executives" and get an honest answer (not PR doublespeak) about what evidence they have that it does any good. Surely a successful business is data-driven, right? Then again, seeing the likes of EA closing studios for decades, maybe they do not really qualify. And I doubt these people are particularly good at introspection, so they don't know themselves half as well as they should. They probably don't *know* honest answers.

    The thing is, there can BE no data. You can't control for all the variables when comparing sales of two, different games. I think they're drinking Denuvo's kool-aid - and every system that has come before it - because it feels good, even if it costs them both money and consumer goodwill. Clearly you can run a business with 0 goodwill - I bring up EA again - but while I believe you can run it even better *with* goodwill - CDPR stands as an example - there's also no way to quantify that any more than there is to quantify how much you gain or lose by licensing DRM schemes.

    So in the end it's cotton candy on one side and meringue on the other, no solid answers to be found in either one. Since the executives lack empathy, they choose the option that makes them feel more powerful rather than the one that makes customers care about them, because the former gives them an immediate high, and the latter makes them feel nothing, and they see no inherent value in it.
    TheMIXer likes this.
  3. Honesty is something you'll never get from these people. For one, they're dumb as hell, since they do not know their own userbase. They either refuse to realize or plain don't realize that adding Denuvo to a game hurts them more than putting no DRM whatsoever (besides Steam) on it. There are many more users that refuse to buy a game due to it having Denuvo than users that would choose pirating it over buying it since it has no DRM and was cracked quickly. How stupid do they have to be to realize that if they add Denuvo to a game and the game gets cracked within a day, they are losing a lot more customers for no reason. Pirates are not "lost customers". Those people were going to pirate the game regardless. The lost customers are the people that decided to pirate the game due to the developers/publishers being blind enough to add Denuvo to the game, so if anything, they're spending money on Denuvo license AND gaining less money out of sales from said investment.
    There's no "power" excuse here. I can't believe that these so called professionals are really the people managing these big enterprises and stuff. I refuse to believe that they sit on a bit conference room and decide that something that will DRIVE customers away is the best decision to get the most amount of money. Feels like they're a bunch of retards that not only they do not know one bit what kind of customers they have, but they also don't even know how to make money for themselves.
    LateToTheShow likes this.
  4. Its the long term shift to have the players always online with absolute control over them and they are willing to bleed (somewhat) short-term knowing the next generation will already have more acceptance towards it when the next step is implemented. I had to chuckle a bit at the "besides steam" remark; considering that this type of online DRM acceptance is ground zero of all that grievance (some freaks still refuse getting invested in Steam or similar DRMd games; as in not just not buying but also not pirating). In ~10y nobody bothers anymore about Denuvo type double/triple layered DRM (or other recent villains like lockboxes in AAA games) like today the majority is totally ok with online locked singleplayer games but all will be up in arms because of something that would be unthinkable by todays standard.
  5. I said besides Steam because Steam "DRM" is a joke and doesn't stop a game from being cracked, the platform itself acts as DRM but not intentionally, it's just a medium where to get games from, essentially. Online DRM games are a mistake, so is Denuvo. DRM as a whole is a mistake. You achieve NOTHING by riddling a game with intrusive malware. You're not going to get more sales by doing that, if anything, the sales will only decrease because, as I said, people who would gladly buy the game skip it due to Denuvo.

    I believe Denuvo is slowly dying though. As I see it, the next step in DRM is always online, which is so far uncrackable. It doesn't affect me all that much, but it's still a mistake, because like I said, games shouldn't have any DRM at all. But this is just wishful thinking on me part. We know this industry is being filled more and more with people incapable of rational thinking.

    EDIT: Actually scratch that, always online is probably the same or worse than Denuvo because it ruins modding.
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2017
  6. Quantum

    Quantum Administrator Staff Member

    I would not buy a game that requires me to always be online, or even to check in periodically. Never have, never will. That's where I draw the line. So if that's where the industry is heading, I guess I'll stop buying games (or stick to indie games). Or I will wait until the price is dirt cheap, because requiring online automatically devalues a game significantly to me. I no longer own the game, so if I don't own it, why should I pay the same price as a game I do own?

    One reason I didn't complain too loudly about Volition's implementation of Denuvo is because it only requires a single initial check-in upon install (or a significant hardware change). But that's about as much as I will tolerate. And only because it's Volition.
  7. For multiplayer-oriented games, it is, but there are some instances where it was possible to create, shall we say, private servers where you're alone just to play the singleplayer portion.

    There is, however, the example of Bethesda/id Software (like them or not), who removed Denuvo from the latest DOOM after the critical sales period ended.
  8. Quantum

    Quantum Administrator Staff Member

  9. I just found out Jeff Thompson has left the studio as well. He was one of the driving forces behind the SDK, so it's very sad to see him go. I hope this doesn't mean the end of SR4 modding support from Volition, because I'm skeptical his successor will be as excited about modding as he was. Thanks Jeff for all you have done for the Saints Row community!
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