Saints Row IV Y U NO SPECULAR MAP?

[semipr0]

Seriously, why do only certain clothing items have a base specular map?

I find this especially confusing because if you happen to go to say...Leather and Lace, if you look at the stuff on the models in the room they have a specular map.

If you buy one of the very same outfits and wear it, it just has a diffuse and normal.

Why is this? I've always wondered. In SR3 a few pieces had a specular maps but it was largely the same, in SR4...same thing, like a couple outfits that have specular maps but most pieces just default to diffuse and normal.

Its just always been a question that I've never asked....and perhaps its been answered but I can't find anything definitive on that. Overall....even if its a performance consideration, given as the wardrobe items are largely stuff only the player wears....why would it be a problem?

 

[[V] Knobby]

Randall is a better one to answer this, but my guess is memory more than anything else. Adding spec would be a good mod though and very possible even with the current tools.

 

[Strogglet]

What's so good about specular map anyway? I've seen many games have them and some examples of it, it looks like just a stub for a shimmer or even an attempt of making Source Engine's phong.

 

[semipr0]

What's so good about specular map anyway? I've seen many games have them and some examples of it, it looks like just a stub for a shimmer or even an attempt of making Source Engine's phong.

Specular map define material gloss levels and reflectivity of light. They're nice to have because while diffuse and normal maps give models their overall texture and light dependent shading, specular maps help to make a material look more real and organic.

In the case of SR3 and SR4 both, it seems almost all 100% one direction or the other. The new Apoc pieces have a specular map but its super glossy, same as the old Cat Suit (which is now a full suit and doesn't have seperate pieces),.

But almost all the player clothing in SR4 would benefit from some variant application of specular mapping, not everything needs to look like vinyl of course...and proper specular maps can help clothing meshes step up their looks to actually appear realistic.

Take this in example, in SR3, go back and take a look at Shaundi's outfit, it has a sensible specular map which makes her outfit look pretty real, as compared to the player that is just using diffuse + alpha channels and normals...the player's clothes look flat and unrealistic in comparison.

Also phong shading is sooo 20th century..get with the times man.

 

[Strogglet]

Are you saying there are actually many ways of improving specular, and that they're different? I somehow doubt it.

I think phong is better, though I feel old for thinking it was Source Engine's only speciality. And to be honest, I don't like that engine at all, it's clumsy. I prefer the old time graphics.

Sorry, don't really have time to look at Shaundi.

Other than that, if SR4 has Latex clothes, then yeah, specular is reasonable there. A cat suit that has no gloss is not a cat suit at all, it's a leather armour for naughty girls (or boys).

 

[Meatplowz]

The characters from SR3 on used a shading technique which was referred to as "ShaderBalls". The rendering of the highlights, falloff and specular were all derived from a small bitmap that looks like a sphere. This bitmap in relation to a full size specular map is a much smaller memory hit. It is also quite easy to author and can modify more rendering aspects than just shiny and glossiness. It can be shared across many characters and objects which is another memory savings. Using the shader ball materials was also a stylistic choice at the time. The character's had to be optimized as much as possible to get more character variety on screen and suit the specific spawning needs for designers. Would we have liked more memory for characters? Hell yea, but when the entire open world game is mostly loaded at all times, balancing memory is incredibly challenging. I'd like to think we did fairly well for the amount of memory given, but I would also love to have had more.

Mike, is right specular maps could be supported when the character slots sizes and such are modified to accommodate more memory.